paulon
3:50 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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Eerie Descent 3:33 Mon Sep 3
SOUTHON (so it must be true) reckons his contract is a rolling one which means it would cost them nearer £7m
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franksfat&slow&wank
3:39 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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there is fuck all positive to say imo other than it can only get better bearing in mind pointless and scored 1 goal from open play in 4 games
the most worrying thing for me is despite having a new and respected manager in the game these so called cunts on the field are strolling around and that is a major fucking worry
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Eerie Descent
3:33 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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They are not weighing out circa £25mil to get shot of him now, you can have that for free.
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twoleftfeet
3:31 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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I admire the original posters positivity.
Lanzini will not play this season.
The football has been terrible.
MP is too old for the job.
The project is doomed.
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Any Old Iron
3:28 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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It's all very well having a positive and optimistic outlook, but it looks to me as though it's bordering on the delusional.
I prefer to believe the evidence of my own eyes, which show me that Pellegrini is clearly faililng to motivate the players to form an effective unit which plays like something resembling a team.
I'm sick of reading countless threads on here where assorted 'experts' tell us where things are tactically wrong. Fuck the tactics.
First and foremost there are no signs of togetherness or team spirit from this group. Without players working with and for each other, tactics mean nothing. And with Pellegrini fucking about with the line-up every week he's probably only going to make matters worse.
But here's the main issue. If Pellegrini cannot change the teams collective mindset then it's a distinct possibility that after ten games we could be on just one or two points. And then we're really in the shit. Over a quarter of the season gone and we could already be well adrift.
I don't see Pellegrini as the answer, I see him as the problem, and I'd get shot of him now.
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Vexed
3:04 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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I think we're going to draw with Everton. Probably 7-7.
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Kite
2:51 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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camel-with-3-humps
i too agree with Cottee, and your right, he is always on the button.
Moyes wanted to play decent football, he said so himself but he just needed to keep us up, then he had a plan, a plan that Sullivan wasn't interested in.
Sullivan started listening to the social media darlings and went all razzel dazzel.
We are fucked.
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Banjo
2:51 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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Whilst the initial four games of the season have disappointing I am quietly confident that we will improve and end up somewhere in the middle of the table. Our squad is capable although there is a glaring issue with overall fitness and desire right now. Pellegrino needs to be very strong in words and deeds to most that played on Saturday as it was completely unacceptable .So,fitness, bollock five or six players, drop 4 or 5 from Saturdays line up and instill how proud each of them should be in wearing the famous claret and blue.
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diehardhammer
2:49 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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camel-with-3-humps 2:34 Mon Sep 3
cottee wanted moyes to stay but conveniently forgets the numerous games under him we lost but should have won too
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Sir Alf
2:35 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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As always, please find it your hearts to forgive the following ramblings of a senile old man. Just it seems another season and my wish for next level ( which is to not worry about relegation all season and see a few decent performances) is as far away as ever.
I like most have been trying to get my head around why we seem to be back where we were after Payet left despite 100 mill spent, new manager etc
Last season, Moyes made us more compact and organised and reliant on the counterattack. Was not great to watch a lot of the times but with the players he had it was enough to keep us up.
There are always multiple factors involved when a team is failing even though we all try to point to one or two. We are not creating anything and no longer employing a direct ( less entertaining ) tactic. So you need to stretch teams with fast accurate passing and .... "movement". We are better at the first bit but totally failing with the second part IMO just as we did under Bilic when he tried it?
Why? Intuitively it points to pace, fitness and stamina but would also be in part down to instructions / coaching and the ability of players to adopt it ( the infamous "Gelling" we talk of). Formations and roles for players are also a part of this. MP has to and presumably can improve some of this?
The part that has worried and frustrated me ( and countless others) since we returned from the Championship is pace and strength or lack of it. And we ( well I certainly do) constantly highlight midfield as the area where it is most needed. But I realise it is a collective thing across the whole team.
We have been lacking a player or two with "legs" or an "engine" in the central area that will not only provide physicality and intercept but also strong holding onto the ball ( Dembele for example would probably not have lost it like Sanchez was despite being caught in possession? ) . But that is only part of the problem. The movement is not there or perhaps it is being attempted ? But we are totally failing to open teams up and create chances when at home and 2 banks of 4 ahead of us just as it has been for many seasons. We need more pace across the team although as I say that is only one factor.
But look at the squad, Arnie is quick enough . Arfur too (not played Saturday as MP makes the same mistake as Bilic and sees him as a LB). but then I struggle. Antonio? ( lacking technically) then the CBs as possibly the next pacey, physical players we have
Liverpool , Spurs, Citeh, Chelsea have players constantly on the move as do most teams. they also have a work ethic of relentless chasing and running all over the team. We are the opposite. We seem to play like some Chumley Warner team of "strollers" expecting that our superior football entitles us to open teams up? Anderson is not that quick and neither is Yamalenko so the ability to get around teams is then intricate passing but that is easy to cope with when a team sits deep and counters like Wolves did.
We struggle with transition from defence to attack too because of it.
No one is saying all the players in the team need pace and strength but we need one or two more than we have and it would IMO make a big difference. Of course, these players have to be good technically. As mentioned, Antonio has pace and strength but he fails on passing skill and awareness to be a proper team man it seems? We seem to trade off pace and strength for technical abilities. We need a few more players with both?
Then you have the likes of Sanchez, Noble, Obiang, Rice and Snodgrass in that midfield area. Obiang is possibly the quickest of that lot but even he looks like he is running with a piano on his back and I saw him struggling to keep up several times as Wolves midfield streamed forward.
So now results have gone south in the first 4 games, confidence is draining fast from the players too. In the last game or two, the manager perhaps has been trying to get them to defend better from the transitions hence Shearer;s point when they all run back rather than push forward ? It's a balancing act. Improve the defence and our attacking suffers even more especially at home?
That said, Wolves breached our high line several times as every team has since preseason..
The shorter version of all this is that Pellegrini is trying to introduce a system for a squad that is not capable of making it work effectively.
If he is to survive he may have to do what Moyes and even Bilic did which is to play more off the proverbial "back foot" again. Counter attack and remain far more compact. Will possibly mean a combination of Sanchez, Obiang, Noble, Wilshire, Rice. Snodgrass being used in a midfield 3 with 2 sitting deeper not just one. Anderson has to go central and we have to play Arfur for his pace on the left flank ?
Then again, MP has to get the whole team , all the players busting a gut and that means improving fitness and stamina.
When will we ever get to that next level? I'm running out of time to see us as a team that is able to compete in the Premiership which for us is next level. Compete = stay in it with relative ease.
Anyone who has not lost the will to live ( by reading down to this point ) go off and make yourself a nice cup of tea or pour a strong drink.
Thanks for providing me with therapeutic support I need to get through another period of crisis at West Ham United Football Club :-(
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camel-with-3-humps
2:34 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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https://talksport.com/football/418172/west-ham-pellegrini-sack-moyes-allardyce/
Cottee disagrees and sees Pellegrini as a flop - he’s never far wrong.
Loved him as a player and still like him now.
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Westham67
2:34 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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Yes we should have won that Pagey
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Pagey
2:30 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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There’s a massive difference between almost getting a clean sheet at home to Wolves and then trying to get a clean sheet away to Everton and home to Chelsea and Man Utd. That would be us going back to playing the football that we hated with a manager who hasn’t got that in his locker.
Arsenal away has been our best performance by far and we have to repeat that but with far more clinical finishing.
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Fivetide
2:21 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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Call me old fashioned (I am) but despite the difficulty of forthcoming games on paper, I'd target a clean sheet first and foremost, and then attempt to build on that point. We nearly managed that on Saturday even with an inept performance at a bizarre tempo, so it's certainly doable with a team showing even a bit of effort and intelligence.
Hard work and commitment in the face of adversity - not stunning flair - was always the real 'West Ham way', and every older fan knows this. If fans start coming away from that stadium thinking that we worked our socks off, regardless of the result, then that's at least a start. And that is always achievable if the right environment is managed.
Technically? Well it's dictating pace and distribution from centre midfield isn't it. Has been for yonks.
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Westham67
1:53 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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TB
Its 6pm here
Hopefully we won't go down , if we do we wont come back up for years, I remember the same thing was said last season the Championship is not an easy league to get out off and offloading half of your first team is not going to make it any easier
Have a nice day
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COOL HAND LUKE
1:46 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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As stated already, there is a world of difference between 'being a manager of great players' and 'being a great manager of players'.
The difference between Man City and West Ham, in fact...
I think... Pelle' is trying to introduce a more technical game, and some of players either can't or won't assimilate it. And most of the new arrivals must wonder wtf they've let themselves in for.
And (sounds daft but could be a factor) there is likely to be an element of envy / attitude from some of the existing players over the new arrivals and their earnings. You need a 'big club' culture throughout a club to be able to manage that situation, and I sense we aren't geared up to keep it in check.
It's human nature for the majority of people to fight change - to "just want things to stay as they were". Even if they were shit.
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threesixty
1:31 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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I like the positivity. But the issue is that of all the fans of football teams, we alone can see the signs of a shit season. We've been here so many times before. We know when a team isn't working and whats likely to happen. We aren't new to this at all.
The main thing to look at in any team is their level. Are they capable of producing great football. If we lose or draw and play amazingly well (like we did against Spurs under Curbs in that last run of games). Then it gives you hope because you can see that its possible to get to that level.
But we haven't seen anything that resembles a team that is capable. And this is with 100m and a pre season. Something we have NEVER had before.
So its not whether MP is a good manager or not. Maybe he is. Its that we have a run of games that will undermine even the best managers who need to time to get their shit together.
Because when you start losing it zaps your confidence and you dont play with freedom anymore. And you start losing games because of fear.
6-7 games with no points will zap the mentality of even the best teams in the world, let alone West Ham.
If we played great and were just unlucky the confidence is still there. So its not so bad. But we aren't playing well at all.
Arsenal played shit and managed to beat us because it was vital for them mentally to win. Mentally if we dont win a game in the next 3/4, I think we are relegation candidates for sure.
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Trevor B
1:11 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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67
We are only making up for the lack of investment over the past few seasons. There is absolutely zero comparison with Leeds from decades ago. Enjoy the rest of your day.
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Full Claret Jacket
1:10 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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Can't see why Cresswell can't play left back. He played there for his previous club and was even playing fairly well in a back 3 last season. Is he fit or good enough? He was a couple of seasons ago.
Arthur just isn't a left back anymore than Antonio was a right back. He's a winger and at best a wing back. The best parts of his game are seen in the opposition half.
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Pagey
1:02 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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I think one of the strangest things right now is that Pellegrini clearly prefers to play four at the back yet arguably three of our four full backs are clearly better suited as wing-backs alongside a back three.
With the amount of chopping and changing this season it’s mental that both Cresswell and Masuaku are our only left back options. If you’re insistent on playing four at the back then the full backs must be solid defensively first and foremost. Cresswell could do it with work, Masuaku definitely isn’t good enough defensively and Fredericks, who knows? Zabaleta is the only one really capable and his lack of pace obviously hinders him.
This should have all been sorted before the start of the season though and it clearly hasn’t. Three at the back looks like our only way of turning things around and becoming more solid while giving Fredericks, Cresswell and Masuaku the licence to go forward,
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Westham67
1:00 Mon Sep 3
Re: A different/attempted postive view on this current mess
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TB
I see us throwing cash at something that obviously isn't working similar to Leeds.
Have many clubs spend 100 million and gone down ?
I don't think you could compare that to the likes of Swansea and WBA offloading players on their salaries and think they would lose as much as we will if we go down
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